Sleep Paralysis - Mind, Myth, Mystery or Monsters?

Sleep paralysis is a phenomenon reported across cultures all over the world—often described in strikingly similar ways, yet explained through very different belief systems and folklore.

In this episode, Xander & Stone share their own personal experiences before diving into the science behind sleep paralysis and what researchers believe is actually happening in the brain and body during these episodes.

We then take a journey across continents, exploring how different cultures interpret the experience—from scientific explanations to supernatural encounters and everything in between.

Don’t forget to subscribe or follow the Xander & Stone Podcast, and share it with your tribe!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

I think first and foremost, let's just say that Vancouver Sleep Clinic is our artist of the day because we are talking about sleep paralysis.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

We are, we are. And I just had a quick listen to the Vancouver Sleep Clinic and I really enjoyed it. I wish we could use little clips on the podcast. I wish we could be like these are the artists we're promoting. But they'll sue the crap out of us. So let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

That's it. We'll just audibly give them a shout-out, and then people can use Google because that's how we find everything to uh locate them.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

Exactly what we're going to do. So an audible shout out to the Vancouver Sleep Clinic for their song. What's the song called?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Someone to Stay.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Someone to Stay. Good. I had a quick listen and it it really is lovely. Um it reminds me of another band, but I can't remember who, but I might have heard them in the past. Anyway, so you're you're Stone.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I'm Stone and you're Sorrender.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

I am, I am. Um and we are the yeah, the fab the Unconquerable Stone and the Fabulous Xander, and we are the Xander and Stone podcast, and it took us a really fucking long time to find our name.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

It really, it really did. We we went. Do you want to say the few that we went through?

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Oh good lord, it's such a long list. Um and it it took us questionably long to arrive at the at the final decision to name our podcasts after ourselves, um, which really should have been the top of the list.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, that's the easiest one. Um yeah, I think the highlight was when I said that we should have our listeners name us, and then you pointed out they can't find us until we have a name.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Until you've got a name, like who are we looking for? But like seriously, like every good podcast name has been taken. And I'm telling you, some of those bastards out there aren't even using them. They just name themselves that put a thing on like Apple Podcast and Stitcher, and they've never recorded it, Dan. Or they recorded one episode in 2020 and then just like you know, forgot about it. Uh, and now they're just hogging, they're hogging the names. Um, so yeah, what are what are some of the names? Well, yeah, just honestly, like, and we went through so many good ones.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Earth Sandwich was a top contender.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Um Earth on Rye, um, which is something we are going to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Bad podcast, the really, really bad podcast.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Unfathomably, we went through every adjective to emphasize just how rinky dink we're actually going to be. So, for those of us, for those folks out there who are listening, like just set your expectation super low for this podcast. If you hear a dog bark in the background, that's normal. Um, I live in possibly the noisiest place on the planet. Like, I just somehow ended up at the noisiest intersection in the whole of Asia. So you are going to hear traffic, and that's fine, because if I have to listen to it, so do you.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

And that that's something important to note, not that you can't tell by the accents right away, but you are recording from Tianjin. I am. And I am recording Phoenix, Arizona.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Yes, and I do the US. I don't know if I sound terribly much like I'm from Tianjin because I'm not Tianjinese for and Tianjin's in China, by the way. And let's like listeners, don't get all up in our girls about like the relationship between America and China right now, because that's got nothing to do with us. Literally nothing to do with us.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I send the president text messages with suggestions.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

We should be like, hey Trump, hey Trump, listen to this podcast. This is somebody in China and somebody in America getting along. Take a note, brother. Take a note. Relax.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

I should call him Donald. Maybe that was awful.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

That kind of makes me think of Donald Duck. I wouldn't want I I wouldn't want to hurt Donald Duck's feelings like that. Like I like Donald Duck. And he actually, when he talks, Donald Duck makes a lot more sense than Donald Trump does.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

So well, this is good. We got the political out of the way. We got the political out of the way.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Even though I think I think we resolved we were not going to be a political podcast, but like, how can you not in times like this? How can you not? Um anyway, yeah. So I'm I'm in China and you're in America. Um and we are Sandra and Stone and we're recording a motherfucking podcast. And because we're cool. That's how that we're cool like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

We we are cool like that. We are cool like that. It's little to no preparation. Zero.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

We're winging it, we're making it up, we're gonna make up all sorts of facts about sleep paralysis today. None of them are gonna be true. If it's on Wikipedia, it's the truth, okay? If it's on if it's on a gospel according to Reddit, it's the truth. So believe everything you read on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

It's the truth that day, anyway. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

It's it's the truth until a better truth comes along in the thread.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, well, I think that's that's the truth for all things.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Exactly, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:46

If it was yeah, exactly like let's like the Bible is probably just a really old version of a Reddit thread. Anyway, let's not get let's not get religious. Let's talk about all the things nobody should talk about in a public forum. Let's hit religion politics.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Let's just point out that you brought them both up.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

So I did, I did. So if you're gonna be pissed off, be pissed off with me. You can come and find me in China, but you can't get a visa because the borders are closed.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

I'm waiting until the second episode to behave badly. So today I'm just gonna jump right in.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

I'm just gonna jump right in. So are you are you guys in in America land? Are you all still on like uh quarantine isolation lockdown type of thing there in the Arizona lands, in the bad lands?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

In fairness, I've experienced the quarantine in China and the Philippines and America. Oh, and Korea.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

You just went chasing you went chasing quarantine and isolation around the planet. Like you were just I was trying to flee it. It was following me, actually. There she goes quickly. Shut it down. They're trying to contain you, Stone. They're trying to contain you.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

It's suspicious. But what I will say is that while we supposedly are under quarantine in America, I would say it's a very loose base term, and that is the reason our numbers are probably pretty high. Um, compared to the Philippines, where I tried to leave the house twice and was walked back by guards. Oh, wow. That to me is that's proper isolation. Welcome to communist isolation. Yeah, they they asked me if I knew where my home was, and when I said yes, they still walked me back.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

It's gonna be a long walk, guys. I'm from Arizona. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Let's just make sure she gets back.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

You're gonna want to bring some snacks.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

So I'm uh sanitizing like mad and wearing my mask and hoping everyone says the same. But uh yeah, that's it. And in China, has it up a bit?

SPEAKER_04 6:43

I mean, you know, ever since like I think it was the 28th of March, um, the one of the most populated countries in the world essentially turned into one big fucking ghost town. It was eerie as fuck. I've lived here for I've lived here for 11 years in uh what what in Chinese terms is considered to be a medium-sized city of 15 million people to the rest of the world, that's fucking huge. Right, and it was biz it was bizarre because it was a proper ghost town. There were just no people outside. One of the things though is we discovered a new colour blue because uh we call it Corona Blue, because there were no cars, there were no cars in the streets, there was no industry running, so this the all the pollution cleared up, all the air pollution cleared up, and the sky was just this absolutely gorgeous blue, and so we named it Corona Blue. Got in touch with the folks at Crayola, they just don't want to listen. They're like, We're not naming it crayon crayon corona blue. Um I was like, that is super short-sighted of you guys. Like, so since the 28th of March, we were in lockdown, it was like that for quite a while. It was pretty intense, um, very I very isolated. Like, you I don't think you ever feel more isolated than when you're in a city with 15 million people and you can't see any other people. Like, it is super isolating. Yeah, for months, for months, we went through a range of emotions because that's basically what you're left with is yourself, um, and you have to learn to get along with yourself again. So I had lots of time to explore. But like, I think what eventually happened for me is um, you know, Stockholm syndrome where the captor, where the captive person give forms a relationship with their captor and they start like caring about them and they want to kind of go back. I've got a similar thing with isolation and quarantine now. I call it the stuck home syndrome because I actually don't want to go outside anymore. Like, I'm okay to stay at home now. I'm like, leave me alone. Go away, shoot, go away, go away. I'm happy to be stuck at home. So I've got what we call the stuck home syndrome, which I'm sure in like 10 years from now I'm gonna have to go to therapy for because I haven't left my house. In 10 years, 10 years from now, looking very bearded and hairy, still not wearing any pants. I don't think I've put pants on in the past in about eight months, but anyway, uh that aside.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So Oh, good, you covered nudity.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

I did yes, I did cover nudity as well. This is definitely an R-rated podcast.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

So we should have led with that.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

We should have said, Yeah, do not let your children listen to this podcast. Responsible parenting.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

We didn't want to have a spoiler alert, so now you know that's responsible parenting.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Cover the little ears, cover the little ears. If you're easily offended, then fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Oh, and the F bomb. Good, good. The F bomb.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

I'm gonna drop a C bomb later, but I'm saving it.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Trying to work it in.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Yeah, but by by C bomb, I mean coronavirus or COVID. That is the C word.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And you already dropped it.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

And I already dropped it several times. I might have to pick it up again later. I'm gonna have to get a broom and sweep that up. It's everywhere. It's gonna get on the bottom of my shoe. But yeah, so but now the thing, the situation in China has eased up and life has gone back to pretty much what can be determined as normal for life in China. We were never quite as like isolated as places like the Philippines were, or like my family who's back in South Africa, spot the accent. Family who's back in South Africa where they couldn't even buy booze and cigarettes, which I think made an isolating situation a lot worse for a lot of people, especially the alcoholics, who then had to deal with isolation, self-reflection, and no booze. Anyway, moving along.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

So we touched on addictions as well. All right, good. We're covering all the topics. We might just do one episode, cover everything in existence, and then be like, and we're out.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

I I think this is the one.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

This is the one, just that one episode where we just piss off and alienate every person on the planet. Okay, so I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go on to the shout-outs. So there's a couple of shout-outs that I want to do to people out there in the in the real world beyond isolation in China. The the folks I want to say a shout-out to, and I'm gonna invite you to give your shout-outs as well. But the folks that I want to start off my shout-out to are the lovely ladies from the My Favorite Murder podcast, Karen and Georgia, because uh the they were a big inspiration in getting this podcast up and running in the kind of format, and I'm gonna use the the the letter F in format, fff format, uh, because of all the fff bombs that get dropped for how we're gonna do our podcast. And then I also want to shout out to Kurt and Krista from Wisconsin. Uh can you do a Wisconsin accent? A Wisconsinite accent? Can can I do one? No, the other person that's doing the podcast with me. Yes, you. Can you do one?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

No, but not me. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

It's a pretty, it's it's a pretty difficult one to do. I'm not terribly good at accents, and that one is particularly tricky. But anyway, um, the Wisconsinites Kurt and Krista from the Strange Sessions, who I have binge listened to for eight months. Um, they don't even have enough episodes for me to just listen to each one once. So I've had to like binge cycle listen to their episodes. They're kind of constantly playing in the background at my place. Um so Kurt and Krista, shout-out to you. Um, any shout-outs from your side, Ms. Stone?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yes, to my family who supported me in this idea of run the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Lovely. Okay, and I suppose we have to talk a little bit about what we're about. So who are we? We are we are that awkward podcast, that rinky ding podcast, that low budget podcast that's trying to keep the lights on. And we're gonna talk about generally things that interest us, I think, but it's usually with kind of a bit of a paranormal twist. Things like today's sleep paralysis and hauntings and exorcisms and cryptoid creatures, and you know, whatever, whatever kind of tickles our fancy. And our fancy gets tickled by a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

It does. We're sort of all over the board, and I think that that would have been a good name for the podcast. All over the board. I'll Google that.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

We might be changing the name of the podcast. Xander and Stone all over the board.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

No, we're we're we're we're sticking with well, because we're also XS and we are a bit much, so we are, yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

XS a little bit much, or extra small, depending on uh, you know, depending on how cold it is outside. Okay, so sleep paralysis. That's why we're actually here. We're here to talk about sleep paralysis. And uh, I mean, I think we we've we've both agreed that we've experienced sleep paralysis within our our lifetimes, have we not?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

And I grew up with my when I was younger and not having sleep paralysis yet, my mom would make these really strange noises and we would know to run in and wake her up.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Because she was trying to get our attention to wake her up. And then when we became adults, uh, me and one of my sisters started experiencing sleep paralysis as well. And it's interesting because I researched this several years ago if there was a hereditary link and I couldn't find anything yet. And I started researching for this podcast, I found um I found evidence. So I'm excited about that. So there is some evidence that heredity has something to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

No ways. And I should totally get in, like, I should get in touch with my family and ask them if they've ever experienced this as well, because I've definitely experienced what I assume to be is sleep paralysis. I also I had a Google as well, um, and I looked up like the symptoms, the things that I experience when I have what I assume to be sleep paralysis. And it seems like the things that I experience are pretty common. So like I can remember, in fact, let me let's let's go into the the personal experiences about it now. I remember the first time I had it, I very distinctly remember it. And I was camping with my family, and we were out in the bush in southern Africa somewhere, because uh, you know, that's kind of things that we did is we went camping in the bush. And uh I was sleeping in the tent. I remember it was like late afternoon as well, because it was really, really hot. Um and I was kind of having a nap. And I I started getting this this like ringing tone in my ears, almost like what do they call it? Uh tetanus or tintanus or something like that, tetanitis, something like that, the ringing in the ears. Yes. But what's weird, and this is the the same symptom that's occurred every single time that I've had it beyond that as well. And I haven't had it for many, many years. This was kind of very much a teenage type of thing. It's it's not just the ringing in the ears, but the volume of the ringing is actually increasing and it's getting louder and louder and louder and louder. Like in my in my mind, I know or I I fear that I have to wake up or get up or sit up or open my eyes before the ringing gets too loud, because I don't know, like I think maybe something's gonna happen to my ears, or I'm gonna like burst an eardrum, or but there's this like sense of panic that you have to get up because this ringing, this ringing in your ears is getting a lot louder. And you've got to wake up before it gets too loud. Otherwise my head just might explode, and that's messy. Nobody wants to clean that up. So, you know, like and and it's weird, but they're in that time of wanting to sit up, and I know that sitting up and waking up and opening my eyes is going to be the thing that stops the ringing. I actually cannot move. I physically, it's I can almost like it's almost as though I can feel myself like it's it's like my soul is pushing my body, like sit up, but I actually physically cannot lift myself. Like I cannot lift my head up off the pillow, I cannot open my eyes, and then all of a sudden it's like I'll just shoot up, like it's as if like I spring up, like something's been restraining me. Which is where when we start looking at the folklore stuff where you feel like you're being pushed down, and like that's what folklore kind of explains it as is like a ghost pushing you down. We'll get into that. Sure. And it's almost like that uh entity kind of releases you, and I just like shoot straight up kind of thing. And that's when the ringing stops. And every experience I had past that is it's been exactly the same thing. It's kind of a sense of panic as well that you're experiencing while this ringing in your ears. It's a very kind of sensory experience, right? And at the time I attributed it, or I kind of like assumed it was because maybe the tent that I was sleeping in was facing on a slight incline, and I was maybe sleeping with my head on the incline, you know, like and the blood was possibly draining into because there's a limited supply inside me, and if it all drains into my head, then part of the the rest of me is not going to be able to function.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

And I kind of attributed that. And then because I've always been kind of fascinated with like uh UFOs and extraterrestrials, I was like, oh my god, it was aliens. Um and I started as I was like, I've been abducted, I've been abducted. Um and I started looking for I started please bear in mind I was about 14 at the time. Um, but I started looking for evidence of alien abduction because I would like nothing more than to be abducted. If any of the aliens are listening to this, I am open to the idea of abduction. In fact, it's not it's not even abduction if you're going willingly. Just come and fetch me, just pick me up. Give me like a 10-minute head heads up and I'll be ready. I'll wait for you.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Willing to be probed.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Totes willing to be probed. In fact, I would really like to be sometimes I probe myself. Um just I would really like it if somebody else would probe me.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Anyway, let's we can check that one off.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Covered being probed, check. But I started looking for like evidence of like uh, you know, like have I been abducted? And I found, and this is no joke, I found three red dots on my neck in a triangle formation. And I was like, oh my, so either, and being out in the wilderness, it's totally possible, either a mosquito had a buffet off my neck, or or I was possibly abducted by aliens and they pricked me in my neck. Three they probed my neck, probed my neck. Obviously, in hindsight, I no longer think that I was abducted by aliens because how would they know?

SPEAKER_03 17:31

I wouldn't be so sure.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

No, and how would they know to go and look for me in the bush in the middle of the wilderness in southern Africa? It makes no sense. It was also like the middle of the day, and like everybody else was outside the tent just going about their camping, and I think they would have noticed if there was a big fucking UFO pulling me out of a tent. Unless, unless I was like transported, like what do they call that again? When you try like teleported, maybe they teleported me. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Or maybe they had a cloaking device.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Maybe there was a cloaking device, yes. But anyway, so but you know, my my belief about it since then is that I was not abducted by aliens, much to my disappointment. And I think it's I personally think it's got more of a physic, physiological, biological, science-y type of explanation. But anyway, now you tell us about yours. Tell us about your sleep paralysis. Is it awkward as is it as awkward as mine?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

I I'm so well, I I don't want to be probed by aliens.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

I'm open to being uh Well, now you've just alienated our alien listeners. So thank you very much for that start.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

No, no, I'm fine. I'm fine with alien abduction. I just don't want the probe. I want to know what's happening.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

So you want to just be like invited over for brunch type of thing, like an intergalactic.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Let's just have a chat. Let's just talk.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

We're just gonna talk. I'll tell you everything you need to know. I'll show it to you. You're just not allowed to probe it, okay?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Well, now you're just inviting on my behalf.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

You can look, but you can't touch.

unknown 18:56

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So I haven't had the ringing in the ears, thankfully, because that sounds horrific. And and I don't remember the first time it happened. I know I was in my twenties, late twenties.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

And when it happened, and I I did recognize it because I knew I was making the same noises my mom had made, that sort of like trying so hard to make a noise to to wake somebody up. So that happened. And as far as the the outside noise, that only happened a few years ago. It happened several times in this specific house. And the first time it was a really loud slamming door in the middle of the night. And I thought my son had he was a you know teenager. I thought he'd gotten mad about something and just slammed the door. So I go bursting into his bedroom and I'm like, what was that about? And his, you know, he's in a deep sleep, and he's like, What are you talking about? And and uh apparently that that's part of sleep paralysis is to have these loud noises that come through.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

I've heard I've heard about that. I've read about that too. Like a like a and it literally is like a banging sound, like somebody slammed a door or dropped something heavy right next to your head, and you've heard this like bah like this big like yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

And it feels like it's outside of yourself. So you're just so I was so convinced I was, you know, yelling at my son. So and then another time I was, I guess I was making the same noises. Of course, you know, you can't hear the noises you're making, but I I again I'm in America, so this will make more sense because I'm in America. So I I'm I'm trying to wake up, trying to wake up, trying to wake up, and then I can hear my son knocking on the door, and I'm thinking, you have to wake up, you have to wake up. So I finally, like you said, shot up and I go and open the door, and my son's standing there with this big knife, like obsessed with is like a machete. He thought I was being attacked, and so he was ready to do war.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

Oh, and he came to your rescue. He came with a big knife with a machete. That is awesome. How old was he?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

He was so upset. Oh my goodness. It's like I was trying to pick up.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

And this is because like he he's obviously hearing these weird noises that you're making, trying to alert like somebody in your, you know, to come and help you.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Exactly. And my door was locked, and so he was trying to bang down the door. And so there you go. So um, and my sister has had several experiences as well. And I only had one where I saw, you know, sometimes people talk about you know, shadow people or whatever that they see. Yeah, I only had that happen one time, and it was the most terrifying thing because it pointed at me and then made a run for me, and I couldn't move. Wow, and so and then, you know, of course, again, it's that panic, you know. And uh my boyfriend at the time was like, What is happening? I was like, I was being attacked. So, but normally, normally it just feels like being in a mini coma. I mean I yeah, I mean uh what I would assume a mini coma would feel like it's like you're trapped in your body.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, just trapped in your body.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Yeah, awful. Which is terrifying. I mean, it makes you wonder, like, I mean, it's do you don't I wonder you gotta wonder if like People who are in comas like mentally, cognitively, like consciously wake up and be like, this is the longest sleep paralysis ever. Like, can somebody just come and wake me up, please?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Well, and it's interesting because most episodes of sleep paralysis evidently only last 30 to 60 seconds, but it feels like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Oh my goodness, it feels like such a long time, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

It really does. So the time thing is is off too, because you're like, there's no way that was only 30 seconds. Sure, sure. But that's getting slowed down.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

That kind of lends to the idea that it is like a psychological phenomenon because, like, even like when we dream as well, like our dreams feel a whole lot longer, but they're actually only it's like in Ren sleep and it's lasting like 30 seconds. But like you feel like you've had this like epic tale of like Homer, the Odyssey of Homer has played out in your mind the quests. It's all happened in 30 seconds, you know what I mean? Like it's it's actually it's actually not very long at all. I wanna be I want to cycle back. I want to cycle back. I want to cycle back to the shadow person that you saw. Do you remember what that person looked like? Like the shadow being the entity. Do you like do you remember any of the things?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

It was almost like a um, you know, like in um Harry Potter, the the Death Eaters, it was sort of like that. Sort of, I mean, there was a form, but it was also wispy.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Wispy smoky, elusive. Oh, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't like there was a space, just dark eyes, and then this cloud of smoke, and and yeah, it was just um but it but when it pointed at me, I saw the finger, and I was like, it was like you. I mean, it didn't say anything, but that was you know, that was the feature.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

But like the message was clear, like it was pointing at you. There were not that many other people involved in your sleep paralysis at the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I know pretty much me. Oh no, not me. It's definitely not me.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

That's crazy. So like through through through researching and and like reading up about like the folklory things, like there, there are in almost every culture around the world, there are records of sleep paralysis and like um esoteric or like um paranormal explanations or folklore explanations for what sleep paralysis is. And a lot of the times it's attributed to this shadow figure. And and and they all kind of they all kind of have that same the same thread to the like what you just explained now, is that they've like it's definitely like a humanoid form, like there's like a head and you know, a body and a finger and whatnot. But it lacks any like distinguishable facial features, and it's it's got that kind of wispy feel. And it's like it it's interesting that you know it's it's to me it's obviously a psychological phenomenon. Like there's there's no way about this. I don't think it's paranormal whatsoever. I don't think we're being visited by entities in our sleep, um, and that we're you know we're experiencing this like paranormal, you know, sleep demon thing, or the the the night hag as they call it.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

But also like one of the things that touch From Romeo and Juliet, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Yeah, as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Reference and Romeo and Juliet.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

Really, really?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, I think it's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Um, but what what what kind of makes me also or or what also I think um adds to the fact that it's a psychological phenomenon is that it lacks facial features. And it's one of those things about our dream states and the certain way that we process um things uh in during a dream state or during our sleep state is that a few things there are a few things that we can't do. So like you won't be able to read things or you won't see clear text and words in your dreams. Yeah. Because like that that part of our cognitive brain that processes reading and words is actually shut down. And I wonder if like the like the the same thing goes for being able to recognize faces, because obviously recognizing faces is uh like um it's there there are certain parts of our brain that process recognizing faces. And and I wonder if that kind that's also because that part of the brain is suppressed at the time. Anyway, so you did all the research about the science y stuff, so why don't you tell us about the sciencey bit about sleep paralysis? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

I I would like to lead with I'm not a doctor. Um I just play one on TV, just kidding.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Um really good at Google. This is from Dr. Google.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Right. I actually actually I'll give a shout out to WebMD for most of this initial research.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

And um and for constantly diagnosing me with the most awful terminal illnesses when I've got like a runny nose. Like WebMD just convinces you. That is what Google searches do about when you've got symptoms, is they convince you either you're like, it's fine, you'll be fine tomorrow, or you're dying, start putting your will together. You know what I mean? Like there's no middle ground with WebMD. You're either completely fine, it's just a sniffle, stopping such a hypochondriac, or like you need to start contacting your family and putting your affairs in order because you're gonna die. Um cancer.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

I mean, any such habits everything, everything is cancer.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

It could be cancer. Like everything is cancer, everything. Actually, look, no, look, to in in WebMD's defense, like I did, I had an abdominal tumor in 2011. I was in China at the time and was eventually repatriated to my own country for surgery. And WebMD did tell me you need to get to a doctor and you need to fucking go now. Um which I did. Yeah. Um, so shout out to WebMD for saving my life. Um but I've also like every sniffle ache and pain I've ever had since then. I'm like, oh my god, it's a tumor. Anyway, let's go back to what we're actually talking about. Let's talk about sleep paralysis. Take it away, stone.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

So as we've discussed, basically it is the feeling of being conscious, but your body's unable to move. And um, sometimes it's it's linked with narcolepsy, but usually it's not linked to any underlying psychiatric problems, like anything deep and dark. So you don't have to worry about that. It's sort of a cursory thing that's happening. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

So it's not like other it's not like your altern, like your altered personalities are taking over type of thing, and you're just not aware of it.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yeah, exactly. So, and and historically, and and you'll go more into the folklore, etc., but you know it was attributed to night demons, um, alien abductions, the old hag, those kind of things. Yeah, what you had re referenced to before with the R-E-M. There's I I hope I'm pronouncing this right, but don't hold me to it. Hypnagogic is when you're falling asleep. And it happens?

SPEAKER_04 27:56

What no the what no?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

What now? Hypnagogic. It's H-Y-P-N-A-G-O-G-I-C.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

I'm gonna take your sounds a lot like hypnagogic to me.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Okay, we'll we're gonna go with that.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

That's what we're gonna call it from now on. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

And and if if it's not, just blame my American American education and we can move on.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

We'll we'll we'll contact Collins and we'll have it included in the dictionary. It's fine. Right. It was close enough.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

But anyway, that happens when you're falling asleep, and it's because um it's usually like when you're stressed out, so your awareness is still heightened. Yes, so your body's relaxing, but your awareness is still there. So that's hypnagogic. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

So, like commonly so it's like you're physically exhausted, but your brain is like, I got shit to do, like we can't just be sleeping now. Get the fuck up. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

That's precisely it. Your way is a better way. We can pronunciate all the words in your description, so that's good. Um if it happens during REM, and that's mostly when it happens, it's called hypnopompic. Again, hoping that's right. H-Y-P-N-O-P-O-N-P-I-C.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Okay, well, by R E M, we're not referring to the 90s band, it's not like you're having weird demonic attacks whilst listening to R-E-M. Though I mean, you know, there have been times when I've been like, I think I'm being assaulted by demons. Demons are coming out of my stereo. So shout out to REM. I'm I'm just gonna correct myself. Shout out to REM because it's one of the best live concerts I've ever been to in my life. Um, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Oh, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Yeah, back to science.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Science! So so REM stands for rapid eye movement. And so there are two stages of sleep that we go through, which is REM sleep and NRIM. And NRIM is the first 75%, and that's just where your body relaxes, your muscles are still active, and it's when it restores itself, but you're not having any dreams.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

When RIM sleep happens, it's the only 25% of a 90-minute cycle generally. Um, that's when you're having the active dreams. So your body shuts down its muscles.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

So you don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Because that way you don't hurt your because if you're running or stabbing or whatever, that's what's around when that's happening.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Running, stabbing, beating, thrashing, wanking, whatever it is you're doing, the body's going to shut it down. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Exactly. So the body protects us and the people around us by shutting the muscles down. And so what happens is basically your brain wakes up before your body does. And because of that, your muscles still aren't awake because you are in REM sleep, and so that's why you feel trapped in your body. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Why are all the stages of sleep like reminiscent of like bands? Like so there's REM, which I'm sure I'm I'm sure, I'm sure the REM psychological sleep state came before the band, but you never know. I wasn't there, so I'm not sure. And then you said the other one's called Nrem? Nrem. Is it like Enrem? E-N-R-E M.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Not REM.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

Not REM, NREM. Okay. I'm thinking of Enya. I'm thinking I'm like, is that like an Irish version of REM? Like okay, sorry. Moving on. Enrem. Enrim.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

So, and the people it affects are generally people who have a lack of sleep, which I have noticed. If I'm exhausted, exhausted, it seems to happen more if I'm super stressed. Okay. If you've changed your sleep schedule.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

If you have um bipolar disorder, it affects a lot of bipolar people, interestingly. If you're sleeping on your if you're sleeping on your back, it happens more often. So if you're afflicted with it, you should try to sleep on your side.

unknown 31:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And then and then if you have any other disorders like narcolepsy or leg cramps, apparently that's a big indicator. Okay. Um, which makes me wonder if there's a potassium deficiency there because leg cramps can be cured with bananas. So it would make maybe we need to eat more banana. That I'm just spitballing here.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

That's no, I'm like, we should offer that as legitimate medical advice on our podcast. Like, if you're experiencing sleep paralysis, go have a banana. It'll fix fucking everything. Like you'll be fine. Have a banana.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Stone says bananas won't cure these. I'm really glad I let off. I'm not a doctor. Um, ADHD meds can lend itself to this and substance abuse. So and then basically doctors aren't don't need to be involved unless it's debilitating to your work or you're tired during the day or you're so stressed about it that you go back to sleep. And then they do a sleep study, make you do a sleep diary. They may put you on antidepressants.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

So um, that's I mean, if if you need the medication, then that's what they would do. But what WebMD didn't say, and I had to go to live science.com, another shout-out, is that uh there are hallucinations, shadow people, terrifying figures preventing people from moving, and that scientists recently studied 862 twins. And you know, I'm not sure about that. This is a grammar question. Does that mean it was 1,724 people?

SPEAKER_04 32:57

Like, are they talking about pairs or like exactly well, what what what did you say how many how many twins did they study?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

They they wrote it as 862 twins. And I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

And like is 862 like I I'm I'm so bad at math that I don't even know, but like is 862 even divided by two, or do you end up with like half a twin somewhere? This is like half a twin.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

It does divide by two to four hundred and three. Okay. But if they if it was eight hundred and sixty-two twin sets, then we'd be 1724. I did the math for you. Yeah, okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

Good on you. You busted out the calculator. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

And so what they found, and this is interesting because I had actually part of what helped me with my sleep paralysis is now because I I researched it so heavily that when I'm in that state, I talk myself down from it. Whereas before I was getting really panicked.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

Like this is so I'm able to myself. So that's okay. That's interesting because that shows like you are fully conscious and awake and able to like make like like actually have a conversation, like an inner dialogue, a monologue, if you will, with yourself about the experience that you're that you're having. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

It's often a dialogue, but yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

It's it's often a dialogue, it's a full-blown fucking conversation, and I'm trying to get a word in. Like, I'm trying, like everybody shut up. I'm trying to explain the sleep paralysis.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I'm trying to explain it to us, be quiet. I just tell myself, it's okay. It's okay, your body's gonna wake up any minute. Yeah, let's just be calm. So that's really helped me to not have those sort of panic attacks when you wake up. Totes cray cray. But with the with the twins, they found out that if you have a gene that is a certain version of P E R2, and the and I'm not spelling it, that's just you know the letters. I know how to pronounce that one, um, which is the gene that's linked to circadian rhythms, you're more likely to experience sleep paralysis. Okay. So now they've tied it to genetics, which is really interesting. It's often it's often a hereditary feature.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

So is it like out of a out of a pair of twins? Like I do even need to say pair of twins because twins implies two. So a set of twins? A bunch of twins, like a pocket full of twins, 862 twins. 862 twins, or 1700. I'm not gonna do the math. But like, is it more are they saying that like one twin may experience the sleep paralysis while the other doesn't? Or like is it it does it very much like are they going to both have that gene? Like what's the story?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yes, in in identical twins, it was almost like it was almost consistent that they both had it interesting with um ones that weren't identical. Um, it was still a very super high percentage. And they also studied siblings, not just twins, and it seemed like it did run into it run in the family, like the percentages were pretty high. So the study, the study, they said it's not conclusive, of course, and there were, you know, of course, there's always variables to the study, but it is lending itself to the idea that there's a big hereditary basis.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

That's very interesting. It's actually it's weird that I've never actually brought this up with my family. Like, I've never I've got a sister, an older sister, and I don't know why, but it's just like maybe I thought, like, oh, they're just gonna think this is just another one, those weird things. My mother's probably gonna be like, You've been smoking too much weed.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Something like that. Well, good drug reference.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

You've been smoking that that dope, you've been smoking grass. Um, yeah, she's like, Oh, shut up, you pothead. Fucking stiner. But it's something that I've never actually even had a discussion with my family about. Like, it's very, it's very likely that my sorry mom. Um, it's very likely that my mother's gonna find out for the first time if and when she listens to this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Um I might have to just we'll have our first listener, yeah, and she's gonna be pissed.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

But I might just have a conversation with her about it today. Um but I I've never thought to ask them if they've ever experienced anything like this. Because I mean, it's not something you really bring up around the dinner table, is it? Like, hey, I was you know paralyzed in my sleep last night. How was your day? Um, people might get concerned. I think for us, because my mom would have us wake her up, that's the reason it was a family conversation because we were sort of trained to do that because she had them so obviously and so that's I mean, that's so if somebody else, when you're experiencing the sleep paralysis and you're making your grunty please help me noises, and somebody comes in like physically touches you or wakes, like tries to wake you, does that actually help? Do you like snap out of it faster?

SPEAKER_01 37:21

I don't it you know, it always feels for me, it always feels like it's 10 minutes regardless. But I I will say I've had a couple exes that did not like that element of me at all because it scares them to death. Sure, sure. So so I don't know if it gets me out of it faster, but it certainly makes for an uncomfortable conversation about what is your problem.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

What was happening? You were getting pretty grunty last night.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

What was that?

SPEAKER_04 37:49

And you wake up and like, and if they didn't, if they got all freaked out and they didn't help you, then you kind of wake up from it being pissed with them, you know, like you didn't even fucking help me. Like this is never gonna work. This is never gonna work, you selfish prick.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

One of my exes, he was like, Well, you should have warned me. And I'm like, how does that conversation go? Hi, by the way, I may fall asleep tonight, and if I do, just be aware might go into a state of semi-paralysis.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Um it's not something you really want to put on your Tinder file because like those weird those like weirdos out there.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

You've got to get a bit of like a actually that would be hilarious to put on your Tinder file. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

Like, what do you call those people who want to have sex with dead bodies? Like what like joking, what was that guy's name? Like nec necrophone. Necrophilia, you might just attract the wrong type of crowd. They might be like, are you gonna do it tonight? Will you do it tonight? Are you gonna be unconscious tonight? Will you be paralyzed tonight? Like, all right, all right, weirdo, back up. Just waiting, waiting for the moment, like refusing to have sex. Are you going to be paralyzed tonight?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Um this makes me really grateful that you know people were mad at me instead of taking advantage of me.

SPEAKER_04 39:02

I'd never thought of it that way. Exactly. Like it's just don't put whatever you do to not put it on your Tinder profile. Like love long walks on the beach, romantic dinners, sometimes paralyzed while I'm sleeping. Um you're gonna attract a dodgy crowd. Night terrors, shadow people, shadow people, night terrors, semi-paralysis will alert you by making grunting noises. Um not something you want to put on there. Like that's their cue.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

You know, oops, she's ready. I'm looking, I I'm personally looking for a healthy relationship. Therefore, I don't have a Tinder profile, and I certainly wouldn't put that on there.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

So what if you end up what if somebody else who also has sleep paralysis sees your Tinder profile and they're like, okay, this is something we can share in common. You have a romantic dunny, you talk about sleep paralysis, one thing leads to another, and then you're both just lying in bed grunting for the other person to help you, and neither of you can do a damn thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Your scenario started out almost romantic, almost romantic, and then just went straight into narcolepsy and sleep paralysis.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

And anyway, all right.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

No, and and you're in exactly the same 90-minute cycle, so of course, you would that's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

You'd probably be right in that. Your paralysis cycles have synchronized now. Like, should you time it? Should you time it? Like, okay, I'm going to bed. Um, set your watch 90 minutes from now, you can go to bed, and then one of us, one of us are either just before or just after. Like, one of us is gonna get help tonight. I hope it's me. Um it's my turn. It's my turn to get help in sleep paralysis tonight. You're going to bed 90 minutes later. It's my turn.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

We did you last night.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

We did you last night. It was my turn tonight. Um, cool. Anything more from the science-y front? Did we discover anything more science-y about sleep paralysis? I that's pretty much the rundown. I think that pretty much sums it up as well. Um, and what I mean, what do you think? Do you think it's a psychological, biological, science-y explanation, or do you think it's paranormal y or do you think it's maybe a little bit of both? It could be.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

No, no, I'm a big Occam's razor fan. So the simplest explanation is the is the right explanation, which means that I think it's by aliens.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Okay. I was so hoping you were gonna say that. Definitely aliens. Simplest explanation, extraterrestrial, interdimensional beings, of course.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Like simplest explanation's always aliens or demons. Like, I don't understand why we're even looking at science. Why we even bother?

SPEAKER_04 41:33

Like, save your time, WebMD. Like it's aliens, geez. Um everyone knows that. Do you think, like, do you think maybe like uh do you think beings in other dimensions think that it's us? Like it's those humans from Earth that are coming and they're holding us down in our sleep.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Oh, yeah, that's it, or pulling us in.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

We might be we might be, yeah, we might be the interdimensional beings causing sleep paralysis in other dimensions. It's possible.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Well, I think that's maybe the simplest explanation. You may have nailed it.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

I think I did.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Well done, Occam's razor.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Just broke the internet. Okay. Solved sleep paralysis. One of the things that you just said as well about science, if you have sleep paralysis, and you said like people who sleep on their back might experience it, and that you should sleep on their side, uh, people should sleep on their side. It's actually one of the things from middle from the Middle Eastern belief about sleep paralysis. And this, I know like in in general Islam, I I remember being told do not quote me on this, I might just piss off the whole Arab world right now. Um that always goes well. Um But one of the things that I I believe it's in the Islamic tradition is that or in the is uh Islamic belief system is that we are actually supposed to sleep on our left side of our body because the left side is where your heart is on in your body, and it actually helps your blood to circulate and your your heart to pump easily while you're sleeping. Because if you were sleeping on your right side, your heart and gravity are kind of fighting, and your heart has to pump a little bit harder to get the blood circulating. So I believe it's one of the things in like uh it's possibly a very old belief from like ancient Islamic solutions to things like sleep paralysis is to sleep on the left side of your body because it makes it easier, it makes it easier on your physi physiology. Big word for the day. Today's podcast is sponsored by the word physiology.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Physiology. That's that's it, you know. I had a friend, an older friend, who warned me when I was younger to rotate sleeping on the left and the right, okay, because your face is pressed against the pillow for so long.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

And you're gonna end up with those pillow creases in your face, and nobody wants that.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

No, it was more about like overall wrinkles. You don't want wrinkles on just one side. So that was her theory.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Like, how hard are your pillows? You're like you're really smooching into the pillow there, like you're really getting down into your pillow there.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Like you gotta remember, like her theory was if for seven or eight hours you're on one side, sure, you know, with your face all crunched up. Uh although, in fairness, I've never seen anyone with wrinkles on just one side.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

I was just gonna say, like, do you bump into your friend? She's like, You've been sleeping on the right side a lot, haven't you? Giving you that look, like, oh, you're gonna want to switch sides tonight. At least try and even the wrinkles out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

She also recommended silk pillowcases. So there you go. I know we're off. To wrinkle issues. So there you go. Anyway, so you're going to tell us about the folklore.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

I'm gonna do my very best. So look, I mean, there's there's lots and lots of I'm gonna spin some stories. None of them are gonna be true. I'm making this shut up as I'm going along. We're gonna hope for the best. But fully aware. Thank you to Wikipedia. Thank you to Wikipedia and Reddit. And uh like just there's actually so much information out there about sleep paralysis because uh and it comes from different cultures, different continents, different, you know, like it's it's everywhere. So it's obviously something that a lot of us experience in life. And the actual okay, so what what what I found out that's actually very interesting is that the what used to be the word to explain the sensation of sleep paralysis is what is the word that we use today, which is nightmare, which is very interesting. Right. Because the actual, like if you break the word in half, night and mare, um, the mare power comes from old English, and it's a proto-Germanic Old Norse word, and it it meaning horse. Meaning female horse. So the female horse that comes in the night. No, it actually, if you look at like the Scandinavian and like uh those words, it's actually used to describe a woman. Oh, and so this is where the idea of this old hag comes from is that it's the nightmare, the old woman who comes and visits you at night, holds you the fuck down, and uh doesn't let you move. But look at yeah, from from all folklores, obviously, because like you know, back in the day, science wasn't a huge thing. So all of the old folklores from almost every single continent and every single culture describes it as some sort of a demon or a ghost, or one of my favorites is the incubi and the succubi, which are the male and the female ghosts, and they're my particular favorites because they're the ones who come and fiddle with you while you're sleeping. And by fiddle with you, I mean fiddle with you. You know what I mean? Like getting down in your business and having a fiddle. Which I'm again, you know, I'm open to abductions and I'm open to being visited by incubi because if if I can take a night off from fiddling with myself and have somebody else come and fiddle with my bits, I'm down. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Um which one's male and which one's female?

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Incubai is the male one, succubi, which just the name, just the name alone. The succubi. Yeah, succubi is the female one. But different cultures, you know, like obviously different cultures kind of have different names for these. I think Incubai and Succubi are like probably Latin, but they come from kind of like the Western cultures. So obviously, I did a little globe trotting, I had a look around the world, and I thought I'd start out with Southeast Asia because that's where I am. And in China, in China, the uh the experience of sleep paralysis, or also known as Guaya Shen, because my Chinese pronunciation is on point, um, it's a demon or a ghost spirit that visits you in the night, and you know, very straightforward explanation presses you down. Um so the Gaia Shen, like the actual translation or of the experience, means ghost pressing on body, um, which is a very literal way. Or they also sometimes say ghost pressing on bed. It's it's a very kind of literal way. Um the same thing is in the Korean culture as well, is that they also just very much explain it as a ghost that's coming to press you down. What I couldn't find is actual any like you know, explanation about who this ghost is. Like, is it an old family member? Is it great grandma? Is it who's just coming and like shoving you down? And really, what would all what would grandma's ghost have a motivation for doing that? Like some resentments, you know, like some I don't know, like why grandma's ghost would come and do that. Um, but it just seems to be this like spiritual entity that comes and holds you down in your sleep. And then in also in Southeast Asia, in the Kashmiri mythology, this is where this is where it starts to get pretty dark and and uh pretty interesting because this is an invisible creature called a pasikdar or a sayar, and it uh some people believe that this pa pasikdar lives in every single house. So you've got one living in your house, if you're from Kashmir, you've got a pasikdar. It's living in your house, um, not paying rent, probably eating the food while you're sleeping, and they attack you, and this is where it gets pretty poetic. They attack you if your house is not being cleaned, or if the if a god is not being worshipped in your house. So if you're like a dirt, if you're if you're like a dirty unreligious person, you know you've got a pasikbar living in your house, and it's pissed. Oh wow. And it's coming at night and it's holding you down and and being like, you need to fucking tidy up because I live here too, and this is unacceptable. In the morning, get the broom out, otherwise, this is gonna happen again tonight. And it's also uh one might also experience this if one has been doing something evil, or if you dip or if you derive pleasure from the misfortune of others. I don't know if you know the German word for that, when you have pleasure in the misfortune of others, uh it the German word is Schaden Schadenfreude, taking pleasure in the misery of others. So that that is basically in Southeast Asia is they either attribute it to a ghost, or if you're from Kashmir, it's the the ghost that's pretty pissed, or the demon that's pretty pissed that you haven't done the housework recently, and it would like you to clean up, just a gentle spiritual remote. You know what I mean? Like, are they is it is there like a demon resentfully hanging out in the corner just being like, when this fucker goes to sleep, man, I'm gonna be on his case, hasn't done the laundry in days. Take out the trash. Well, I mean, if they've got and if they've got the physical, the physical presence to be able to come and push you down in your sleep, why don't you lend a hand with the chores?

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Why don't you fucking sweeter the time?

SPEAKER_04 49:42

You know what I mean? Like, this is like it's a bit reminiscent of like the elves and the shoemaker, you know, like the elves that went and came and made the shoes in the middle of the night. Like, wouldn't it be lovely if you woke up in the morning and the house was spotless because your night demon has been doing a bit of tidying up while you're asleep? Then I'd be all for the holding. Exactly. Like, we all everybody deserves to have a housework demon. Everyone deserves one. Um I need to move. Why are you moving to Kashmir? I would like to have a housework demon. Anyway, ancient, ancient solutions to modern problems. But then if you start moving a little bit further west from Southeast Asia, and we started looking at the Middle East and the Western and Central Asia. In the Pashtun culture, it is known as kapasa. Um, and it is believed that this one is a ghost that does not have any thumbs. So four fingers, no thumbs. And uh it's trying to suffocate you by pressing down in your throat and by sitting on your chest, but flaw in its plan, it doesn't have any thumbs, so it can't get a good grip, can't actually suffocate you effectively. Um, so it just seems to be doing using its index and its middle fingers. So kind of like how you feel for maybe it's concerned about your well-being, maybe it's feeling for a pulse. Maybe it's like shit, this one's dead, quick, get and then it comes and presses on your throat. But again, it's it's all like they all seem to attribute it to something that's sitting on you, holding you down and suffocating you. I don't know. Have you ever had the experience of being suffocated in your sleep? Like a sleep paralysis suffocation type of thing? Yes. You have? I have. Okay, so it's it's the push turn. It's the push turn. It's demons from the Middle East are coming and suffocating you.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Well, that makes sense because the one I saw, I only saw the index finger. I did not see Thomas.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Oh, so did it just have the one finger, just one bony one bony index finger finger. One bony little index reaching out for you. Yeah, the claw. So that's so that pretty much covers Asia. We've got the Kashmiri, the uh housework demon who wants you to clean up and tidy up, otherwise it's gonna come and smother you in your sleep. And then we've got the Pashtun one. Again, this is just uh no explanation as to why. It's just a demon who gets its thrills by coming and pressing on your throat with its deformed hands and sitting on your chest. So holding you down, suffocating you. Then in on my continent, on Mama Africa, in the Ethiopian culture, it is called a duka, and it is believed to be this evil spirit that possesses people during their sleep. And some people believe that this experience is a symptom of withdrawal from a stimulant called cat, and that's spelt K-H-A-T. So not like the modern horse tranquilizer, but it's actually it's it's actually this plant. It's a natural stimulant that we should all probably try and grow in our gardens because it's natural. And it's the leave of leaves of an uh of a shrub. Um and they're they're chewed, they're chewed, or you can drink them as an infusion or a stimulant. And basically, if you're going through withdrawal and you haven't had your fix of the from the garden this week, you might experience sleep paralysis. And the evil spirit, the dukuc, is an anthropomorphic, anthropomorphic personification. I fucked that up completely. Let's try that again. It is an anthropomorphic personification of depression. So it's like your depression personified. And it often results in the act of the, you know, if people stop uh quitting or they start um they they they stop using the stuff called cut. I I I assume I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's K-H-A-T-Cut. And the du kak will often appear in your hallucinations if you're quitting your cut and it meets out its punishments to its victims for offending him because you quit. So he wants you to take the pl, he wants you to keep, he wants you to be a junkie and passage. He wants you to keep chewing on the leaves. It pisses him off when you don't. And it says that the uh the punishments are often in the form of implausible physical punishment. So he'll put the victim inside of a bottle and he'll shake the bottle around, so that's happening while you're sleeping, or he'll make you he'll make you perform very outrageous tasks. And this is again, this is an Ethiopian culture. So they think, and one of the one of the ones that they gave as an example of an outrageous task is that you must swallow a bag of gravel. To which I had many questions. Are you are you like, are you allowed to the whole bag? Like, are you tipping the bag into your mouth and just swallowing gravel? Are you expected to like ingest bag inside, like gravel inside bag? And how big is the bag? Like, you know, I could probably swallow a mini bag of gravel, but like, you know. Um but they they were not wrong when they said that it's like they make them perform outrageous tasks because swallowing a bag of gravel is pretty fucking outrageous and really specific as well. Really specific. You can just imagine like the Ethiopian, like, you know, elders sitting around, and when somebody said, like, well, what what outrageous tasks, they'll be like, uh, a bag of gravel. Um if you don't chew the plant, you're gonna eat the gravel.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Uh and then in So this was perpetuated by the farmers for marketing purposes, possibly, possibly by a bag uh a gravel salesman as well.

SPEAKER_04 54:37

Possibly. Oh, that's that means or no, probably not. Why would the I don't know if a gravel salesman would want you to be eating bags of gravel, but possibly by the people who punt the cat or the cut or whatever the stuff is called. Like um because they want to keep pushing. They want to keep like if you yeah, um, you know, people I I kind of imagine like dot like shady characters hanging around outside schools with potted plants in their hands being like here, kid. Um chew on the leaf, chew the leaves. But yeah, so this the stimulant called cut, it's a natural stimulant, so it comes from this plant. And if you stop taking it, the anthropomorphic personification of your withdrawal or the duc is going to come and put you in a bottle, shake you around vigorously, and then feed you bags of gravel. So really specific punishments sounds like an hallucination from a withdrawal to me. But you know, each to their own.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Maybe they're onto something. I don't, I've never had the gravel experience or the shaking bottle experience.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Maybe that would help. Like next time you have sleep paralysis, like ask your son, like, do you have any bags of gravel? Because any bags of gravel lying around.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

See where this goes.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

Imagine like, imagine waking up and just spitting bits of stone and like that sandy taste in your mouth and being like, Oh, fucking sleep paralysis was the damn ducac has been here again. And then in you wouldn't need breakfast. Well, you would be full on you would be full on gravel, yeah. I mean, you know. Of course, and you'd get I mean you'd you'd meet all your minerals for the day. You'd be like, Do you want a vitamin? No, no, no, no, no, a bag of gravel last night, I'm fine. And then in southwest Nigeria, the Ogun Uru is a traditional explanation for the nocturnal disturbance of the people of the Yoruba. These are all very big words that I'd have to go and Google as well, but you know, you're welcome to Google them. And Ogun Ur does Ogun Uru means nocturnal warfare. So now you're actually involved in the in the act of war while you're sleeping, and it kind of involves an acute nighttime disturbance that is culturally attributed to demonic infiltration of the body and the psyche during dreaming. And this kind of starts leaning into being, I mean, it's demonic possession, really. If it's infiltration, it's it's possession. So this uh Ugun Uru is uh possessing you and your body and your psyche while you're sleeping. And uh, it seems they they kind of give it a it's predominantly more of a female thing to happen. So they tend to say like females experience, males do not, which you know, I it it just it just sounds like some sort of sexist egotistical thing. Oh no, no, no, I don't have that sleeper, I'm not eating any gravel. I'm fine. It's that's that's that's a woman's thing, woman you know, and it's it's apparently to them, it's an underlying feud between the sufferer, which is obviously the lady, her earthly spouse, and her spiritual spouse. And uh so they're they're saying, like, you've got your your husband here on earth. It sounds to me like they're just coming up with excuses and they're kind of putting things on ladies as like, you know, well, you you don't love me, you're having sleep paralysis, you want your spiritual spouse. So somewhere out there, you're married to somebody in the spiritual realm. I assume that means like your soulmate. It sounds a lot like a jealous husband to me, who doesn't feel like he's getting enough attention from his wife, and he's saying that, well, now you're being possessed by demons who are causing this. And they believe that they that it's treatable through Christian prayer and elaborate traditional rituals designed to exercise the imbired demonic elements. Um so you gotta go to church, you gotta get the elders involved, and I suppose you've got to either divorce your earthly spouse or kind of have a conversation with your spiritual spouse and say, like, hey, look, that husband's getting pretty pissed. Could you leave me alone? But they they attribute it to a sort of it is, right? But they they attribute it to an actual like possession, uh, a demonic infiltration of the body and the psyche. And then if we go a little bit uh going a little bit north, we're gonna go to Europe. And in Sardinia, oh, this is actually quite lovely. In Sardinia, uh, obviously one of Italy's islands, there's an old belief that identifies the cause of sleep paralysis as being a demonic called Amuttadori. Um let me, I don't, you know, because it's Italy, I'm gonna say it with that obnoxious Italian accent. I used to work, I used to work in an Italian restaurant for many, many years in university. I worked in an Italian restaurant, a proper, proper Italian restaurant, not in Italy, but owned by an actual Italian. And it is the most obnoxious white people thing to do is when when they order Italian foods, that they they do that thing with the hand, you know, when you when you pinch your three thing fingers together and you kind of shake your hand at somebody. And I'll get this like just a typical white South African will walk into the restaurant and everything else has been perfectly normal up until now. And they'll say something like, I think I'd like to order the pen, and I will follow it up with the amatrician, and they do that very annoying, and I want the cappuccino. And I'm like, Look, buddy, you seriously put your hand down. Why are you pinching your fingers at me? It's people, I don't know why they do it. It's the most obnoxious white thing to do in the world, but I'm gonna do it now. So in Sardinia, there is an old belief that identifies the cause of sleep paralysis as a demonic being called the amatadore, which actually said you do the hands. I did. I was doing I was doing the hand justice. In fact, you know, I was I was so entered I did it with both hands. I was I was double Italian. I was like, this is some mafioso shit. Um but amatadori sounds like a, I don't know, it sounds like a lovely biscuit that you get with your cappuccino.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

Um but it does sound lovely. Now I'm hungry, you know?

SPEAKER_04 59:50

Um but this ghoulish creature, it sits again sitting on the chest area, so holding you down while you're sleeping on the chest, suffocating you again, and sometimes, and this is fun, it's ripping your skin with his nails. So if any of you have ever woken up with ripped skin and nail claws, maybe you're having an illicit affair, and your husband or your significant other, your wife, is like what are those marks down your back? And you can be like, It was the amateador. Like I was visited by Italian sleep demon and it made some scratches on my back. Don't worry about it. And it's also believed that there we go. In some parts of the island, uh, this demon even wears seven. Note seven red caps on his head. Now, I don't know if that implies that it has seven heads or it's just wearing an awful lot of hats at once. And why specifically seven? And if you're wearing seven hats on one head, does anybody even realize it? You know what I mean? Like it doesn't just look like you're wearing one and you're like, but look, there's another one and another one and another one, like all right, chilla. Calm the fuck down with your hats, please. Like one would have been fine. And if the victim, if the victim resists the pain, and if you succeed in stealing one of his seven caps, you will soon find a hidden treasure, which I think I think is lovely. Like, that's why I kind of like this one because there's actually a reward at the end of this one. So all the rest of them are like, you're being possessed and infiltrated by demons, you're cheating on me with your spiritual spouse, you haven't done the housework, but if you're from Italy, you want to steal the red cap off his head because you're gonna get a treasure. No specifics as to what that treasure might be. And I hope it's not one of those, like, those like uh the reward for stealing the cap is the reward of having conquered your inner demons. Oh, fuck off. I want money. Like give me, like I don't I don't want one of those those types of rewards.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Or we've awarded you a quest. Yes, yes, now you go on a chest.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

You are eleven sevens level seven, I can't even say it. You're a level seven sleep paralysis Jedi. You stole the cap.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:44

We've leveled up, and and what if like, and are you always is there only one of these things? Are there multiple amatadori demons? Because like if it's only one and he's only got seven caps, and seven people steal the caps, like what happens? Then is there no reward? Like, do you just get tormented by a demon? He's like, ha ha, I have no caps left, no treasure for you. Um or does he is there like a store of red demon caps somewhere that he goes and gets another one? Like, shit, gotta go get another one. All right, and then the last one, the last culture, the last culture I looked at was in the South Pacific, and this is in the island of the beautiful islands where I will go one day of Fiji. Oh god, if you ever Google Fiji, like trust me, it's it's one of those places that you're gonna go to and you just I'm never leaving. Like, I'm just from Fiji now. This is if anybody needs me, I'll be on the beach. Um, it is like concerning, it isn't that that what they call the ring of fire, which is that huge Pacific ring of volcanoes. But you know, if you're gonna go down in a massive, like super volcano eruption, what better place to do it than from Fiji? And I'm sure the view of the volcanic eruption will be gorgeous. So, anyway, in Fiji, it's interpreted.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:48

It's a good way to go. It's a good way to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:50

Like I'm on the beach, there's a huge volcano, but it's fine. You know, I'm just chilling on the beach, it's stunning. So in Fiji, it's interpreted as a cane tavoro. Again, I don't know what language they speak in Fiji or how they even pronounce it. I can do it with the Italian canatevoro, but I doubt they're Italians. And this one, you're actually being eaten. You're being eaten by the demon. Um, and in most cases, this demon can be a spirit of the recently dead relatives, so recently, still fresh, um, the fresh dead relatives, who have come back for some unfinished business or has come to communicate something important news or something important to the living. And often, okay, so this is where it gets interesting. So, so you you know, your family, you you make noises to like alert other people, like help help. I'm in sleep paralysis, please come and wake me up. And in this in Fiji, they actually, in Fiji, now remember they're described this as being eaten by this kanetevoro. And in Fiji, if people sleeping near you or near the afflicted person notice that they're in a sleep paralysis state, what that what that person who's nearby has to shout is kan nya, kan nya. And that means eat, eat. So they're actually encouraging the demon to come have a feast, eat him, eat him, which and so it's apparently it's in an attempt to terrifying. No, but it's it's kind of sweet because what they it's sweet in its own demonic possession kind of a way, because what they're trying to do is to prolong the possession so that they have a chance to converse with the dead relative. So if I was, if I was like, if if for whatever reason you and I were sleeping in close proximity to each other and I noticed you were in a sleep paralysis state, I'd be like, that's my grandma. Eat, eat, because I'm hoping devour her grandmother. Um, because I am hoping, I'm hoping to get a chance to talk to Gran. So it's it's a chance for the person to prolong the possession and to continue the feast so that they've got a chance to converse with the dead relative of the spirit and to seek answers as to why they have come back. And then on waking up from the experience, the person is actually uh often asked to immediately curse or to chase the spirit of the dead relative. So as soon as you wake up from your sleep paralysis, you're gonna be like, fuck off. Um, go away.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

After you invited them to stay to eat.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:55

No, okay. So you haven't, if you're experiencing the sleep paralysis, you are not you're not the one inviting them. It's the person who's sleeping next to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

So again, this comes to where you're No, I I I get that, but I'm saying what a mixed message, like come here, go away.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

Come here, go away. Like it's it's pretty rude, right? And so on waking up, you're you're you're told to immediately curse them or to chase them out. And that sometimes involves literally speaking to the spirit and telling him or her to go away or to use, and this is where using expletives. Um, so you can actually wake up shouting, fuck, fuck off, fuck off, fuck off, grandma. You know, like again, it's it's to do with possession. I love the fact that they want to prolong the possession because no other culture in the world is like, I would like this possession to last a little bit longer. To continue.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

How much must you not like the person laying next to you to go go there? You know, I mean it's like it's okay for you to be sacrificed.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:43

Again, this comes back to you know, like one of those things where you get the weird like necrophilia's foundry through through your sleep paralysis Tinder profile, and you wake up with them shouting, eat, eat while they're while they're dry humping you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

You know, I wasn't expecting a cannibal tail that. That's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

Yeah, right. So, like apparently after you die and you're in this in and you're in Fiji, you become a cannibal. You're a cannibal demon, my cannibal grandma. That's a great title for a podcast. My grandma's a cannibal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

Um I'm sure it's taken. Like all the people.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

Oh geez, you know, seriously. My best friends are cannibal, of course. Um, but you actually it's lovely. You shout kanya, kanya, because you want them to continue eating. I would be offended. I would be like, for fuck's sake. Oh offended. Wake up and I'd be like, seriously, fucking seriously, it's your turn. Like they I was possessed last week. It's your turn. Exhausting. Like anyway, um, so that that pretty much. So you know, like so we've got in China, it's the ghost that's pressing on your body. In Kashmir, it's people who don't clean their houses in Pashtun. Um, it's the the two-fingered ghost who doesn't have any thumbs in Ethiopia. It's because you're Jonesing because you haven't had your fix of the cut in uh southwest Nigeria. It's your spiritual spouse, um, and you need Christian prayer and elaborate uh rituals. And in Sardinia, um it's uh the guy with seven red caps, and you're gonna get a treasure at the end. And then of course it's your dead grandma who's coming to cannibalize you in your sleep if you're from the South Pacific. Yes. And then I think, you know, like the sleep paralysis thing has been done to death in most podcasts. Um but I think we brought a new spin to it. But obviously in North America or in in uh in the Western culture, we attributed it to this thing called the night hag. Um and it's this like old crony lady who comes and just sits on you and strangles you while you're sleeping. But that's that's it. That is the cultural globetrot around the world explanation for sleep paralysis. But what I took away from it though is that it is most definitely part of the human condition because it seems every culture, no matter where you are in the world, no matter what weird little isolated island in the South Pacific you're actually from, has some experience and explanation of sleep paralysis, however questionable that explanation might be.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

So what that really says is that alien abduction happens everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

All the time constantly. Everybody's being probed. Everyone being except me. Um is being probed. Maybe, maybe that's it. Maybe it's because I'm putting the thought out there, like, hey, I want to be probed. They're like, Oh god, don't be so needy. Like don't you fucking hate the needy ones? You gotta, you're gonna be like, please don't, please don't. They like maybe they've got like a they've got like a slightly questionable like motive, you know what I mean? Like they're maybe that it's a maybe they've also got a bit of Schadenfreude about it. Oh my god, the Germans are aliens. Um, but they've got they've got a different Schadenfreude. Like we we take we take a lot of pleasure in the fact that you do not want to be probed. Like if you want to be probed, we're not that into it. Um it's the Germans, it's the Germans, they're aliens.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

You know, I don't know who our market is anymore because you've really alienated.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

We pissed off just the whole planet. It's fine, it's fine. I'm I'm enjoying just us having a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:06

Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:07

We are both we are both the the hosts and the audience of our podcast.

unknown 1:09:12

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

We're waiting for your mom to sign it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:14

And my mom and she's gonna get as far as the like, you're stoned, and she'll be like, fuck this, I'm not listening to this anymore. It's like I knew it, I fucking knew it. I knew it was him. Um cool. So that is that is the cultural aspect of sleep paralysis. I'm I'm still going with science. It could be aliens, like there's there's just so many. We'll never know because we're sleeping while it happens, so we never really have the explanation.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

We could turn on the cameras. Well, first of all, I would like to say I'm really grateful that you did the cultural one because I couldn't pronounce two of my words in the science one, so I can't imagine having to know all the words that you just said.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:50

I I was winging it. Um, I was doing it phonetically. Um, so if there was a K, an A, an N, and an A, I say Kana. Um, for all I know in Fiji.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:59

Sounded right, sounded right.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:01

For all I know in Fiji, it's got a completely different. I did look, I did look at the the other Southeast Asian cultures like Vietnam and Cambodia and Thailand and those places, and those words were pretty fucking weird. Um and a lot of a lot of them started a lot of people. I was just like, yeah, I'm not, I can't say that. Uh I'm not gonna do it. But a lot of them like always, and you know, obviously having lived in Asia for 11 years, I've traveled to these places many times, and the the word PH UK, fuck, um, it appears in an awful lot of their vocabulary. Um, so you know, I didn't want to be like sleep paralysis is all about the fuck. Fuck sleep paralysis. It's it's the demon called fuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

And yet you still went there. And yes, I still went there.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

I did, I did. Um yeah, I mean it's it's interesting. It's uh there's you know a lot of interesting explanations. Um and I I love the I love the romanticized idea that you know these different cultures give to it about the like you know dead relatives coming to get you. I don't know if romantic or romanticized is right, but I love the the esoteric explanation that they all give to sleep paralysis because you know somewhere some that you know a group of them got together in you know yo 102 AD and they all were like, What the fuck is going on with that? And somebody offered up the explanation, it's your dead granny, and she's eating you. And everybody was like, Yes, that's it. That's definitely like I wonder how many other ideas were tossed around the table before work. We think it's that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

We it's definitely the jaded husband meeting.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:27

The lazy houseworker, you know, like for that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

Which one did you think was the most haunting?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

The most haunting. Um, I'm gonna say, well, look, I love the idea I really, really love the idea of the one that it's um maybe not the most haunting, but the one that I really enjoy the most is is the one about the housework, the one from Kashmir.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

Um, because I think that's the one I would have said.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

I absolutely adore the fact that there is a demon sitting in the corner of your house going, you dirty fucking bastard. Like, can you just can you just have a sweep for fuck's sake? Demon in corner doesn't do windows. Um I love that I love that idea. It's just like resentful, and yeah, and it's like it's almost like it's a demon with some OCD who's like, I'm not touching that, I'm not touching that, I'm not touching that. And surely, and and it's in every household, every household according to them, every single household has one of these. So I don't know if it kind of comes with the property or if like you know, like is it does it travel with you when you move? You know, like do you get one assigned to you for life and it's moving around with you from place to place? Is it included in like the estate agents like tour of the home?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:34

And do they name them?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:35

It's a two-bedroom, two-bedroom, one bathroom, got a garage, and a housework demon.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

Um his name's Henry.

unknown 1:12:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:44

His name is Ahmed, and Ahmed wants you to do the dishes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:47

Yeah, I I did go with a very English name, doesn't it? You did, Henry.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

It's terribly, terribly anger science. Of course it's Henry. Yes, but in I I believe in Kashmir you would pronounce it Henry. But oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

You're just more back to us, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:02

More glottal stoppy. But uh so that that's the one that I find the most charming. You know, I'll be having a word with my housework demon and doing some apologies today because during isolation I haven't been terribly good at it. So I'll be having uh an apology session with my housework demon today. So that's the one I find the most charming, but I think the one that I find the most haunting. I'm going to go with I'm gonna go with the one in Fiji, the South Pacific one, where it's eating you. Like you're being eaten by a dead relative or a demon.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

And being and it's being cheered on by your bed.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:31

And being cheered on by the people in the house. Like you wake up and they're like, eat him, eat him, eat him.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

And everyone's I think that would be more scary than the demon. It's just hearing people can't eat him.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:42

Thanks, Mom. Geez.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

Like I am not a boss.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:48

Um yeah, so it's it's I mean, it's concerning, but also like I like the fact that it's the recently dead relizive, so it's freshly dead. So if you haven't had any you know, if you haven't had anyone die recently, like you're you'll be fine. They do they do kind of buffer that with the explanation of it's it's either a demon or your dead granny. Like those are two very things. Could be the demonic entity from the bowels of hell or your gran. You know, it could be one of one of these.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

So how do they know if oh, because they would know that somebody had just died. So that's so probably they don't cheer it on if it's a demon.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:24

Maybe like where the sensation of eating occurs, grandma ain't gonna eat you out.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:29

Um that's awful.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:34

Oh my god, I think I'm gross.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

I just immediately went to fingers and toes.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:38

Fingers and toes, just nibbling, yes, nibbling. Like you wake wake up with like your nails have been bitten on.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:43

Nibbling.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:44

Yeah, just nibbles, just nibbling on an appendage. So so those, those of the cultural cult obviously. Look, I went and had a look at the gospel according to Reddit as well. I'm not the biggest fan of Reddit, I'm not the biggest fan of Reddit because it's absolutely endless for a start. And you know, there's just no control over the quality. To me, Reddit is like the landscape of the Lord of the Rings because it's just fucking trolls and ogres wherever you look. Trolls, trolls, everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:10

See, it feels clunky, it does clunky and disorganized to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:13

Yeah, um, but one of the things, one of the things I read one of the stories, and I've just got a little excerpt of it here. So I'm gonna read this one very quickly. Um, this is by a Reddit poster called Theta Sigma, because there's three A's because they have no center sense of restraint. Um, so it's Theta Sigma on Reddit. Um, and this uh he or she, I don't know, this um frat boy or you know, do you call them frat girls in the States? No, sorority sesters.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

Sorority.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:42

So it's either a frat boy, is like the Theta Sigma give you any indication of gender? Like, do you know things like that? I do not.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

I don't with that many A's. I'm thinking it has to be guy, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:53

Yeah, it's just like it's some like fucking frat boy who has no sense of moderation. But so Theta Sigma on Reddit actually posted six stories or six um experiences of sleep paralysis. I always take these uh, well, I mean, we're talking about demons and sleep paralysis, a pinch of salt anyway. But there were six, and some of the most of it was crap. Um, but this is one of the few, and again, I think this might be like you know, completely made up. This one I I like because it actually had a positive spin, which you know, when you talk about sleep paralysis, it's demons and grandma's eating you and the housework demon. Um and this one has a positive spin. So here it goes. Uh this one happened last night and it was really short. I was spending the night with my girlfriend, and she was sitting beside me drawing, and as I was about to fall asleep, sleep paralysis kicks in, and I see an angelic woman standing in the corner of the room. So, Angelic, that's a nice spin. That's a new spin on it. That is nice. Yeah, she had long blonde hair, average height, long blonde hair. She was average height, average for an angel, seen many, average height for an angel and had a very calming aura around her. That was, and we're gonna come to this in the pet peeve. She had a very calming aura around her that was literally glowing. Good and act and accurate use of the word literally. We'll get to that in a moment. But back to them. Uh this person said, Please climb up this ladder. And there was this ladder that was also glowing and leading into his girlfriend's, his or her girlfriend's ceiling. Uh my eyes instantly closed, but for the first time ever, I was still in sleep paralysis, and I felt this dark presence next to me, so I began grunting. And I heard my girlfriend ask, Are you awake? Are you okay? And she kept shaking me until I woke up. Uh this was the first time I've had sleep paralysis in a few months, and it was a very short but very odd. I find sleep paralysis very fascinating and wish we knew more about it, and these common figures that people see, which is true. Um, the the shadow figure and uh a a shadow figure wearing a top hat or like a hat is is also quite a common one. Um I know this isn't the case for everybody that has sleep paralysis, as some people hate it and are terrified it, terrified by it. Um ever since I was little, my dreams have been stranger than the average person. I don't know, like, did you take a poll? Did you do a survey? Um I've heard some pretty fucking weird dreams. Um and this has made me fascinated by dreams and what brains do while they sleep. Um so I like that one because it was one of the very few who who actually highlights it as like a positive angelic average height being that's standing in the corner and is inviting them to climb up a ladder, which you know I really wish that what was at the top of the ladder. I mean, like, was that an invitation into heaven? Like, where were you going there? Where does the ladder go?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

Sounds like more work. It does, it does. Like, I forgot.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:22

That was the housework demon. That was the housework demon being like, you gotta clean the gutters. Have you seen the cobwebs in the corner? Get up that fuck up the fucking ladder, you lazy bastard, cobwebs in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

Um they they just had a very positive outlook about housework.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:36

About housework, yeah, I get it. Um, so I like Doctorw.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

And to not alienate the Doctor Who people, I did look up Theta Sigma, and that is a Doctor Who reference. So it's not uh Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:49

There you go. Okay, so in all my life formerly known as Theta. Okay. There you go. I know Theta is also like one of our brain waves, like it's one of the states of our consciousness. It's we have theta brain waves, and I believe it's something to do with like one of the meditative states or the higher consciousness states, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

Explains why Doctor Who linked on to that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:07

I've never actually, you know, I've never watched an episode of Doctor Who, not one of them. And as long as that show's been running, I've never seen an episode, and I have a very good reason why, because I'm gonna fucking love it. And I need to be able to. I I mean it's been on for like it's it's like I think Jesus used to watch Doctor Who because it's been on forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

And I I watched it as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:24

I haven't watched it since I was like, Yeah, I mean, obviously, I'm I'm from like the backwaters of South Africa, so we didn't have fancy things like television um when I was growing up, and you know, electricity, things like that. Um I I would I I know I would love it if I uh if I if I did watch it, so I've got to be very careful because then I will just months of my life will disappear. And people like, where have you been? I'll be like, watching Doctor Who with my housework demon. Um, we've been busy. Places of messages demons pissed were hooked on the TV show.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Um I lived out in the middle of nowhere, so we only had a channel and a half, and that one happened to play on PBS. So yeah it was it was a lack of options, but I I enjoyed it, but it was a lack of options in fairness.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:05

I know, I know now they've they've I think the most recent episode because I see these things on the internets, um, and I think now they're for the first time they've got a female Doctor Who, which is very female, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:15

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:17

So all girl power, female Doctor Who. Um so this is good.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

We've read we we at least have we've got the feminist back on our side. Yay, female Doctor Who. Finally, we'll have a market. We'll go after Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:29

What we need, what we need, what we need is a black female homosexual Doctor Who, and then we'll just be like on all the fronts, we'll be like, that is the most empowered Doctor Who. Preferably with a preferably with like some sort of a uh like a physical challenge as well, like a black, deaf, blind, homosexual who get back to alienating everyone. Absolutely everybody. Um uh but anyway, all right. So um one of the things we also decided we were going to include in our podcast is our pet peeve corner, things that just piss us off. Yes. And we were talking about this, and I said we needed to say this. Uh we were having a chat, a text back and forth, and uh it was the use of the word literally, and the incorrect or the rather like obsc like overused word uh literally is literally the most annoying thing in the world. Um literally, literally, it pisses me off, um, as opposed to metaphorically. Um, and I I you know people use this all the time, and it really grinds my carrots, like it really, really does. I had a girl the other day because I do a lot of like home cooking and I I post my you know food and things like that on social media because I need other people's approval of the things that I eat. Um and I had posted, I posted uh something like because I'd recently okay, so long story short, I've recently given up all refined sugar and I just did the social media. I know, right? It was um we'll we'll go into that in another episode because that was an experience. Um but I'm fine now, everything's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Um but I'm fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:57

I'm fine, it's okay. Um like I posted something about like I I'd really love like my when I say like okay, I'm giving up refined sugar, my brain immediately goes, like, oh, chocolate. And I'm like, no, I said I'm giving up refined sugar, it's like ice cream. Um and I posted something along those lines because I'm witty as fuck on social media, and uh one of the one of the people who who's like on my social media replied with oh, you should make your own homemade sorbet with fruit, which really pissed me off because like three days earlier I'd actually made a post with homemade sorbet that I'd used fruits. Like, fuck off, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Um how did they not know they are not following the way they should be fine?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:34

You know, like geez, like keep up or keep out, but uh and then and then proceeded to give me the recipe for how to freeze fruit, um, which is very, very straightforward. You literally freeze the fruit, and I was like, really? As opposed to like what metaphorically, like like metaphorically freezing, just ignoring fruit, making it feel frozen out, like just so give you the ice recipe now. Just give your give your fruit bitchy looks from across the kitchen. Um, i see cold stare, cold shoulder, cold shoulder to the bananas, cold shoulder. Um so my my pet peeve of the day is the word and the incorrect use of the word literally, and I can use this correctly. It literally pisses me off when you use the word literally incorrectly. I get angry. I get angry. Friendships, friendships have ended over this. Like uh, I literally cannot even talk to you anymore. You're literally, you are literally no longer my friend anymore. Fuck off. Um, anyway, what's your pet peeve? What's your pet peeve, Stone?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:33

You you want there to be a circle in Dante's inferno for the literally crap?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:39

A literal, a literal circle in hell for you people.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:45

So mine is lol. Lol lol. And the reason being if it's used correctly, no problem. But often I'll say something that's mildly amusing, and somebody says lol, and I think, are you really laughing?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:01

Are you really is it really happening right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:03

Are you like funny?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:05

Are people on the streets stopping and looking at you and be like, why the fuck is that crazy guy laughing? No, I agree with you. Literally happening. You are going to have to literally send me videos right now of you lulling, or this is like I'm never speaking to you again.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

Like, I I've said that to people. Are you really genuinely? Are you really?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:24

Like you're questioning, I'm questioning you about this. This is an interrogation, and I need fucking answers, okay? I agree, but you know, I you know, in in uh I I'm so guilty of it though. Like I'm so guilty of LOL almost being like used as punctuation, like you know, lol. And I've actually got to be very careful because I I I can text pretty fast because I've got the thumbs of an uh you know, uh they're just I can't a demon doesn't uh you know exactly I've got more thumbs than a sleep paralysis demon from the Middle East, um which has no thumbs. So even if I had one thumb, I'd be in better anyway. Um, but uh like I I almost use it like punctuation. I'll be like, hey, how are you doing today, Lol? Like it's super like what's funny about that? But you've got to be careful because you'd be like, Oh, I'm so sorry, your grand died, L O L. Um L O L I've got to be very careful, and I I get like That's awesome, L O L it is that's amazing L O L. And then there's a huge to me, there's a big difference between capitalized L O L, like all three are capitals, a single capital L and then a small and a lowercase O L because that's like a you know, like a general ha, and then they've moved on with the day. Capitalized L O L is like you are sincerely actually breaking down with laughter right now. People are calling like authorities, be like there's a crazy person on the loose. Um, and then and then there's the all lowercase LOL, which is like I am acknowledging that you've spoken nothing funny about what you've said. I think I know you think it's funny, but it's not. Small case LOL.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:52

I think mine comes down to validation because I'm a riot, truly. But I want to know that it's the appropriate LOL. Like that really wasn't that good.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:02

Maybe, maybe we should start like in our text, we should start including like levels of LOL. So this is like an LL level one. Like this is this is level one shit. Like this is level one shit. Uh this is level one l. I think you can do better. I think let's push for the three today. Let's push for a three. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:20

Are you doing a bit? You need to work on the bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:23

You need to you're gonna want to go back and just think that through a little bit. Um, so now that we've now we've alienated every millennial um from our podcast, LOL. And you um yeah, I can agree. I can agree. The the use of LOL. I'm also guilty of the haha as well. Like, hey, what you doing? Haha. Me too. Um, and it's such an automatic like it's such an automatic thing. Like my fingers just seem to want to type it by themselves. Um unless unless the music is coming from you anymore. Yeah, exactly. Like it's the it's this the the lol demon that lurks in my house, hangs out with the houseword demon, infiltrates and possesses me while eating me. But yeah, so lol and the word literally, like this this this pet peeve corner is sponsored by the letter L, literally and L O L L. L O L Stone, it has been magical. It has been magical. And I think we need to let our listeners go. And I think we need to get along with our day. We are going to set up all sorts of like social media accounts and email addresses and things like that for people to be able to get in contact with us. And obviously, we would like to hear about your scary and uh questionable experiences of sleep paralysis. So once you know where to email or where to shout out, we'll let you know and tell us about your sleep paralysis. Possibly by the time this episode goes live, it'll be in the bottom of our show notes. We'll put our contact information as it is right now. Fuck all. We barely scraped a name together. Like we barely scraped a name together to just like you know, manage your expectations, please. All right. From me, from Xander, it's a goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

And from Stone. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:59

Later, bitches.